The darkest heart

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Let me relay two short stories in hopes that maybe something in them will help.

First, my wife and I are 20 years apart. She is having serious troubles being over 60 now and beginning to hit the hard part of aging and is upset that I am not able to relate to her struggle. She is really beginning to question whether we did the right thing by getting together 20 years ago. This, as you can guess, is causing some major grief in our house at the moment.

Second, my Mother was dating someone almost 15 years her junior, who was a really good guy, took good care of her, but really wanted kids. Mom was not having any of that, so she knew that as good as things were, she could not allow their relationship to keep him from being a great Dad. So, she sat him down and explained her feelings and more or less had to throw him out for his own good.

Now, your situation is different from both of these, but still has some of the same elements. The decisions will be difficult, so choose carefully, with good feedback from Sug. I hope things work out whichever way is best for the two of you, whatever that may look like. (((HUGS)))

funny how men are sooooo atracted to engines, and then once they thing they have one, they put you in the caboose. it's terrible that the only solution i've come up with so far, is to be the engine you never quite catch.

men seem to adore instability.

go figure.

As much as I hate to admit it, and although I've never bowed to it, I have to say that Karen is right. MOST men seem to find instability, no matter how painful, as alluring as the perfect breasts or mind-blowing sex. I can only venture to guess that it allows a man to be with one woman, but still be "in the hunt".

Sorry K. I hope this rough patch passes quickly no matter how it's resolved. I would say though, if Sug is that young, he might need "don't take me for granted" broken down in more practical terms. He probably isn't taking you for granted at all in his heart.....and he hasn't realized that his actions communicate something else entirely.

Hmmmmm. Y'all have given me some good food for thought. These are going to be painful and difficult times for us either way.
you've told me how your wife feels. Question is: how do you feel? Is that 20 years too difficult to overcome once the apparent age gap starts to widen again?

20 years too difficult to overcome? Not in my opinion. Problem is that when you have change of life, midlife crisis and empty nest syndrome all at the same time, how do you handle that? Then throw me into the mix with suffering depression for the last 15 or so years and you've got a kind of mess. Things lately have been looking better, but there are days when that fragile thread seems ready to break.

One of the problems today is that I want her to be the person I first met and she wants me to be the person she first met. But we aren't and can't be those people. We have both grown and changed. If you asked her back then about younger/older marriages, she would have told you to go for the happiness, the love. Now she'd say don't do it because of what we're going through.

I love her more each day (cliche sounding, yes, but true), but that fails to come across sometimes. It's a communications thing. If you've ever read The Five Love Languages, it explains it pretty well. We all have ways we show love and ways we feel most loved. The ways we are showing love today are not the ways we want to be loved. Hence, the problem.

i don't know that i agree that men are as drawn to instability as they are to perfect breasts (or perfect anything). i think that some men make decisions that leave them happy for many years; some men make decisions that they think make them happy; and some men are insistent never to be happy at all. (or perhaps this is just my experience.) i do believe that long happy marriages are possible, that lives entwined together can survive and thrive over many decades. i am witness to it. but i do not have the recipe for how to make it work for so long, or how to know when you've found the right partner to try.

i believe that at some point, we make a decision - conscious or not - that THIS is our relationship and THIS is our commitment. we choose to make it work because it's what we believe is right for us. we love, we compromise, we sometimes annoy, but we always come back. in your case, dear k, i imagine that the oppose it also true. we say "this is what makes us work, and this is what doesn't." when weighing those perspectives, we choose how we wish our lives to be. it's a very tough decision. my heart goes out to you.

all the best, my friend. may you quickly find a resolution that settles your heart.
[this is good]
Good book. Very good book.
Have you simply told him how you felt yet? Y'know, more or less what you've said here?
Nope. Hoping he will read it one of these days soon.
How did you get so wise?
*facepalms*

Communication, communication, communication!

It is *crucial* to a relationship, at least from everything I've read, and everything I've experienced. I'm really not sure how passively hoping he'll read something sometime works...

I hate to be so brusk, but if you want him to know something, you'll just have to go up and tell him. He's a guy... you have to do that. He's not likely to guess or do detective work to figure out what you're thinking.

A woman may be socially trained to "drop hints", but for most guys, you've got to spell it out. Granted, I can only speak for me, but... really, I don't think that's too unreasonable to ask.

Is there some fear standing in the way, specifically?
if Sug is that young, he might need "don't take me for granted" broken down in more practical terms.

I think youth is pretty irrelevant-- you've got to be upfront with a guy of *any* age on these matters, IMHO.

If you want a guy (speaking as a guy) to understand how you feel, why, you tell him. Plain and simple. Don't drop hints, don't pussyfoot around, don't figure he'll read your mind... tell him.

I understand tact and diplomacy is important... but really, ladies, don't keep us guessing.

If someone told you, "Pease don't take me for granted. That will be the demise of our relationship", would that be considered keeping you guessing? Probably not. Sounds like K has done that part already. I'm suggesting that if his 20-something youthful exuberance is distracting him from the mesage he receieved early in the relationship, K may need to point out that regularly ditching her for his buddies, is considered "taking her for granted".

I agree it's a great book. One of the few really helplful relationship (and not just romantic relationships) books.
interesting, because I understand how you are feeling and I guess i just never exactly put it to that before. I'm also tired of feeling last on the last. I suppose if you asked my wife she would say the same thing about being with me. I feel I have plenty of other time I could devote to her but the TV, the laptop, napping, and working until 2 am always seem to win over me.

good luck with whatever you do.
One of the tings pushed around has been communication. It comes down to something more specific than that. Definitions. What I define "taking me for granted" and what my wife defines it as, are two completely seperate things. This is where you need to communicate what taking you for granted means to you. Without that knowledge, he is using his own moral compass to dictate what that definition is and in his book, that answer looks a whole lot different than yours.
i fake it well?

i'm excellent at giving advice - and a nightmare when trying to figure out what to do with my own life. i hope that the words give you some comfort - or some guidance.
Which is exactly why my original response to K was to break it down to Sug in more practical terms. In other words, point out what specifically he is doing that makes her feel as though she's being taken for granted. The point I was trying to make to Jaklumen in response to his note to me, was that while K should give Sug more detail about how his behavior is impacting her, it wasn't as though she didn't attempt to communicate her needs at the beginning of the relationship. She was not keeping him guessing, as was implied.
Above all, advice is so easy to give, so hard to use. In the end, you'll have to do what you feel is best, so all this is just opinions. Do what feels right.
I also don't expect a man to thank his lucky stars that I have graced the same planet, country, or room that he has.

Well, I don't know why the hell not! You are awesome and deserve someone who not only sees it, but remembers to let you know often, in both word and deed. I hope Sug can be that guy.

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